debt ceiling essentially was must not be used as a weapon that essentially takes on and essentially un-- undoes the basic full faith and credit of the united states of america. the president made so clear what would be at stake if that were to happen. and i just think it's so critical that that not occur. you know, i've been through these battles as i said for many decades. but i don't remember anyone essentially saying that we should go over the cliff in terms of the full faith and credit of the united states. the consequences would be, i think dramatic. i think potentially cataclysmic. for the republicans who essentially saylet do it, i think that would be a very, very serious mistake with foreseeable consequences. the federal reserve said don't do it, i think the response of the position is we should not flirt with it. >> [inaudible] start asking you questions. so you've said it's cataclysmic, shouldn't. be done in term of reaching the debt ceiling. both sides seem locked in -- the president said i'm not going talk about the debt ceiling. speaker boehner said it can't be done unless